Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters You guys always talking about shooting in the wind and it fu cking up your groups

At least it was on the sighter. -Al

Well... You want the last one in the scope but 😁😅🤣

I always take a couple of extra pins down with me, put them under the bottom of the target and tell people not to hang a target any lower than the pins.

Shooting NRA highpower at the local 600 yard range taught me a lot about wind. We weren't shooting for groups per se, but scores. Twenty-shot strings of fire from prone. The "High Master" boys & girls could put darned near every shot into the 10 ring, and many times the matches were decided by X-count. I made High Master, but was never a threat to the top shooters in any match.

During those 20-shot strings of fire, the wind conditions could change a lot at that rifle range. I was good at detecting the wind pickup, but not so great at noticing the let-off, until I'd shank one out into the 8 ring!

Our wind flag situation was pretty dismal, as we were shooting across a big gorge. For a couple of hundred critical yards, from 300 - 500, there simply was no place to put a flag.

Remember well a "dust devil" descending upon the firing line in one match... And it stayed there for quite a while. I don't remember if anyone tried to shoot through that whirlwind.

Distance is easy, it's just math. Wind? It can be so twitchy and tough to deal with.

A good rule of thumb to prevent this is: Look from the top of the bench to the bottom of the target frame and make sure none of the flags are above this height. As a matter of fact, that's a rule that's enforced at all I.B.S. or N.B.R.S.A. registered tournaments. If a competitors flag is too high, the range officer will go out and lay it down.

Of course, none of this applies to the advanced shooter that's using flags to help his load development. Just make sure that they are placed 'into' the prevailing wind direction. If the prevailing wind direction is from the 9 o'clock for example, don't set them on your right side 3 o'clock...whatever you see then has already gone past you. Set them 'into' the condition so you can see what's coming.

This is another reason to learn to shoot with both eyes open...your off-eye can watch the flags. It's also why real Benchrest rifle have their scopes mounted quite a bit higher than hunting rifles. With a high scope mounting, you can sit in a more upright position and watch the flags better. Here's a few examples:

This is at Painted Post, New York for the IBS Score Nationals. At each yardage, the target berms are terraced higher. By the time you get to 300 yds., the gun has a lot of elevation on it. The 1/2" risers under the tall rings let me sit straighter and see the flags.



This is at Van Dyne, Wi. for the NBRSA Wi. State Hunter Championships. The gun is my Hunter (HBR) rifle...these guns are 10 lbs. max., a narrow 2.25" fore end, a 6X scope and a case that holds a minimum of 45.0 grs. of water (30-30 capacity). Again, the higher rings keep your head up. Believe me, you don't want to be wadded up like the Hunchback Of Notre Dame on these HBR guns when they come back at 'ya. I ended up winning the 100, was second at 200 and was second in the Grand Aggregate that weekend. The case capacity rules have since been dropped and most now use the 30BR.




IBS Score National at Holton, Michigan. The scope isn't as high as I would have liked but the range is really flat so I made it work. Ended up winning the 100 with my RFD actioned 30BR Varmint class gun (10.5 lbs).



This is looking over my back at the Prairie Dog Target Club in Porcupine, S.D. for the NBRSA Hunter Nationals. It's a good shot illustrating flag placement for the prevailing condition.



My 10.5 lb. 6PPC in a redwood and carbon fiber stock. Due to the lower recoil compared to the .30's I normally shoot, the scope is mounted high enough so you can really just shoot heads-up watching the flags once the dot is placed where you want it on the target. A bit of a leap of faith but it can work when the winds are real switchy and you have to 'snap shoot' a condition.



My huntin' stuff gets mounted lower, depending on the stock....different tools for different jobs.





For what it's worth...............

Good shootin' -Al

Al, I've never shot BR competition, but watching a long range BR match, I was amazed at how fast those guys would shoot when they detected their favorable conditions.

Outstanding!

Guy

Great post, as usual, Al. Thanks!

Al- thanks for the scope height info. I've been wondering about it after seeing your high-mounted setups.

Great post Jeff. Thanks.. I have also seen guys crumble in the wind.

I agree Charlie. Thanks for your insight. Constant wind only changes POI, but those damn wind's that change/switch on you are a pain. Head winds and tail winds are something that a lot of guys don't think about. I've seen some pretty huge POI changes when shooting in canyons. That is why we practice, in different conditions. It keeps us on our toes.

I'm assuming tri-cities?

Damn that would suck man.

No, East Wenatchee at the NCW Gun Club "Home of the Wind Buckers" - aptly named. That gorge does interesting things with the wind.

Regards, Guy

I like that buddy. I lose concentration as well, as of late it seems. I think familiarity is to blame for that. I always want to pull the trigger fast for some reason. I'll settle down when I'm shooting irons from the weak side though. The target that I did not show was this one. Well, I kind of showed it in the OP, when it was folded over.

After shooting that last shot, I kind of chuckled and the guy at the next bench said, "you shot through the paper when it was folded over". I said, yeah, maybe it's too windy??? That kind of made my day, as the new rifle is shooting pretty good. Now, I need to start working on some loads for it...

The end result of my new rifle, when zeroed for the conditions and after I fit the steel Warne bases and Burris Zee rings. I'm liking this new rifle, but the wind was a PITA when I shot this group:



It's just a hunting rifle guys. I'm not talking some fancy benchrest gun. Just a good 30-06 hunting rifle that has had a little work done to it. Rich Jamison wrote an article on the same rifle, but chambered in 270 win back in 1982:

Camp Bullis was a wind range. I never could shoot a clean there at 600. And I've gone 20 MOA one side to the other to shoot consecutive X at 1000 a few times basically. Luck yes. But its big changes.

Any shooter that knows, knows head and tail winds have an effect. They have never had huge effects for us though. But some for sure.

And that said about the 100-200-300 lines being different wind... how about left to right with trees on the side. I've talked with enough to know... certain winds at Perry you will have no wind, left wind, right wind and some elevation between that... its easy enough to read up there though.

The reason folks think wind isn't a big thing sometimes is its easy to shoot MOA or less at 100 in some wind. But if those folks ever got to shoot in a tunnel and realize they could be shooting 0/2s... then the other groups are wind related but since you are shooting so close like 100 yards the error has not multiplied much yet.

I was lucky once... actually a couple of times, to have the only cleans at 600 on a range past Waco. It was a windy range at times and fairly tricky... but I managed to figure out what the wind was doing. And shot well.

For me, I always imagine water flowing where the wind does. You can see what water does easily. And unless you pop smoke in wind you never really see what it does. Water helps me understand it. Of course part of that is growing up around water and even today using my captains license 4 plus months of the year... I see lots of water.

BTW wind flag height.. I'll give a field example. Long sendero. Trying to head shoot a deer about 350. Missed twice. The wind was really a stiff front. Like 18-22/24 appx. There HAD to be wind involved in the shot. But the brush was just high enough and my trajectory from the 338 win mag, I figured had to top out and get bumped a bit. I was wrong. Way wrong. finally held with zero wind and connected on the 3rd shot.

Sometimes we over think. Sometimes we dont' think at all. Either and any in between can burn us.

Good post rost. When I'm shooting long range silhouette, I watch the mirage a lot in my scope (NF Atacr). It is a much better scope than what is on my old Mauser shown in the op. Whole different ball game there. I don't see much deviation when shooting at 100 yards. Some seem to think they can't shoot in the wind at that measly distance. You can, it's not hard to do. I wouldn't be developing loads in 15-20 mph winds, but 10 mph, no big deal. Contrary to some belief here. I like your input, as I've seen some major deviation at 1,000 yards. Even 650 to 800 yards, when shooting in a canyon with a head wind. Results can be catastrophic..

I'm glad you said that. You have a ton of experience. I was shooting a new load the other day. Expecting to have to adjust POA to hit center of the target. Nope... Wrong:


I hit damn near where I was aiming!!! Wind was about 10mph and constant. I was thinking the low bc Nosler partition would need some steering, but nope it actually cut through those conditions better than I thought it would.. That's only 400 yards, not really that far. At 1,000, it might have been a different story..

Another thing.. my brain is slow this morning lol.

Wind let ups were mentioned. That also was my thing that I could not realize in a string.

So with some research and a few words from David too I got to timing the wind. Yup it does run in cycles.

When the letups are bad enough to kill a score for match.. granted you can't always use this in hunting but sometimes you can and we have... it helps you.

Run a second stop watch... start shooting as the wind starts to build after a letup. Stop shooting a bit before its about to die off some... really actually worked very well. And often, assuming pit service was fast enough, you could get 22 shots out before it let up. OTOH if you have to call for a mark every time you shoot a 10/X....

Ah thanks Guy. Have you ever shot Douglas ridge?

That Model 340 is a good looking rifle, and obviously a shooter.

Guy